Hey Billy. Are you ready to get this interview going?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n Hell yeah.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Where were you born and raised? <\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n I was born in Chicago, Illinois, in 1979 and I lived with my parents there until I was ten years old. Then I moved with my aunt and uncle to the northern suburbs of Chicago and I lived there until I was 18.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Did you skateboard in Chicago?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n Oh yeah. I started skating in 1989. It was pretty much my life and it\u2019s still my life.<\/p>\n\n\n\n What was your first skateboard?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n My first board was a Tony Hawk. My grandma got it for me at a garage sale. It was the pink one with the skull on it from the mid \u201880s. I barely rode it and then this kid offered to trade me for an Atari, so I did, but I regretted it right after. Then I talked my parents into getting me a board and they got me a Madrid with some clocks on it. My birthday actually just passed and Tavita re-bought me my first board, the Tony Hawk.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Nice. Were you skating ramps then?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n I started skating curbs. We were building launch ramps and we built a mini ramp at one point. I was into BMX then too, so I was in the woods building jumps. <\/p>\n\n\n\n Were you aware of the skate scene going on in Chicago with Jesse Neuhaus and Stevie Dread?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n Oh yeah. Those guys were legends, but we were just groms from the suburbs. On the weekends, we\u2019d go skate downtown at night and we might see some of those guys. We didn\u2019t want to get vibed or anything, so we were just cruising in the shadows. Then the parks started popping up in the late \u201890s and some of those rippers from downtown would come and skate. There was Deerfield Skatepark in the northern suburbs and we localized that one pretty heavy. <\/p>\n\n\n\n What did the Deerfield park have? <\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n It had some tranny, but it was pretty weak. At the time, we thought it was super sick. It had a clamshell with elliptical trannies and a pump bump sorta snake run area, but it was not defined and it was small. It may have been one of the first concrete parks in Illinois so people were coming from all over. <\/p>\n\n\n\n Was that the first concrete park you skated?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n Yeah. When they were building it, I saw the coping up in the air and I couldn\u2019t believe it. It was weird to see the coping is first. When you build a wood ramp, the coping is last. At this park, the coping was first, so I was tripping on it. I was 17 and flunking out of school and, after seeing that site, I started having ideas like, \u201cI should be doing that.\u201d I didn\u2019t really think of skaters building skateparks back then though. At that point, I had a summer job painting houses and then I got on the board for getting a skatepark in one of the suburbs. I was going to the meetings and trying to align myself in skateparks in some way, but it wasn\u2019t like, \u201cThis is going to be my career.\u201d It was just what I was interested in.<\/p>\n\n\n\n You just wanted more parks built. <\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n Yeah. I was pretty scattered, at that point, and I wasn\u2019t following rules and then I got kicked out of my house. I was still in high school and I was living in my car and driving without insurance and getting caught. I was just being a kid and trying to figure out a way to skate more. That\u2019s why I never excelled in school. I just wanted to skate. <\/p>\n\n\n\n How long were you in Chicago?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n I was out of Chicago in \u201998. My friend was going to Western State College in Gunnison, Colorado and he was like, \u201cMy roommate moved out. You should come and live in the dorms with me.\u201d A few days later, I went to Colorado with him. On the drive out, we skated some crust parks in Indiana and there were some parks in Colorado at that time. I remember going to the Silverthorne park and I was completely mind-blown. There were hot chicks there skating and I couldn\u2019t believe it. I was like, \u201cI couldn\u2019t have made a better choice.\u201d So I lived in the dorm in Gunnison and there was a little on-campus skatepark, so I skated a lot and worked a little. That\u2019s when all of the parks started popping up in Colorado, so we started hitting all of the concrete parks and I was loving it. <\/p>\n\n\n\n Were you thinking of getting into the concrete skatepark trade then?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n No. I was just partying really hard and skating and washing dishes. I was in my own little world. I hung out in Gunnison for two years and then I met my wife and she started skating too. She wanted to go to Hawaii to go to college, so we ended up going out there in 2001. <\/p>\n\n\n\n Did you go to Oahu?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n No. We went to the Big Island. I remember seeing Natural Koncept ads with dudes skating concrete parks and I related to that. When we got to the Big Island, I was like, \u201cWhere is this park?\u201d They said, \u201cThat\u2019s in Oregon, bro.\u201d I was like, \u201cWhat? There are no concrete parks here?\u201d They were like, \u201cNo.\u201d We were getting ready to go skate one day and my buddy popped the Northwest video in and it was just all grainy Super 8 and talking and stuff. We were like, \u201cWait a minute. This isn\u2019t what we\u2019re trying to watch to get hyped up.\u201d We had short attention spans, so we were like, \u201cWe\u2019ll check this out later.\u201d A week later we decided to watch it, knowing it was more like a movie and less like a skate video. Once we watched it, I was mind-blown. I was like, \u201cThat\u2019s it. I gotta go to Oregon and try to work with those guys.\u201d <\/p>\n\n\n\n Did you know Monk or Red then?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n No. I just saw the video and was inspired. I was like, \u201cThese are my people. I need to go there.\u201d I couldn\u2019t hold a job doing anything else and all I wanted to do was be surrounded by skating. I had other ideas like becoming a shoe rep or getting a skate shop going, but I was never passionate about that. Once I saw that video, I was like, \u201cThat\u2019s the real way to get involved.\u201d We went to Oregon and saw all of the parks and skated Lincoln City and Newberg. I was like, \u201cThis is the best ever. Now is the time to get a job with these dudes.\u201d I called Grindline and they were like, \u201cNah. We\u2019re good.\u201d Then I called Mark Scott. It was in November when I called and he was like, \u201cMeet me down at Burnside on March 22nd.\u201d I was like, \u201cThat\u2019s random.\u201d Then I called Geth Noble from Airspeed. I\u2019d heard through the grapevine, that if you wanted a job, you had to volunteer first, so I was saying I wanted to volunteer. I called Geth and he was like, \u201cOkay. Come to Toledo, Oregon.\u201d So I left the next day. <\/p>\n\n\n\n Where were they in the build then?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n It was pretty early in the build. They built it off an old foundation of a warehouse, so it had a basement under the skatepark. They built some retaining walls around it and they used sandbags and then they would shoot shotcrete on it. There were decorative rocks carved into it and it was the craziest park. It looks like a castle. I showed up there and Geth had me filling sandbags all day for the retaining walls. I volunteered for two months and I loved every day of it. I was just hyped because I got my foot in the door. I wasn\u2019t getting paid, but I was soaking it all in and trying to be useful in whatever way I could. <\/p>\n\n\n\n When you were the new guy on the job, did those guys heckle you? <\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n There was some heckling, but I hit it off with Geth and we were just laughing about stuff from the beginning. I don\u2019t think he has that relationship with everybody and I think that upset some other people on the crew. I don\u2019t know if you\u2019ve ever met Geth, but he\u2019s gnarly. I was definitely trying to get my spot, so I was probably jocking a little bit because I wanted to start getting paid. That was part of the reason that people were vibing me too. At that time, skatepark work was scarce so, if there\u2019s some new guy in there chomping at the bit to get a job, you\u2019re like, \u201cWho\u2019s this guy?\u201d <\/p>\n\n\n\n What was the deciding factor for you to start getting paid on that job? <\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n I never got paid for that project. There was another job in Montrose, Colorado, and I volunteered on that job for about a month. There was no work after that Colorado job and, you\u2019d think I\u2019d be feeling burned by now, not getting paid, but I wasn\u2019t. I was on top of the world and had two jobs under my belt. <\/p>\n\n\n\n On that second job, did they bump you up to tying rebar? What was the next skill you learned?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n I was running some machines. I had worked for an excavating company before, so I had a bit of experience. I was also tying rebar and grading and picking up trash. <\/p>\n\n\n\n You weren\u2019t working with concrete yet?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n No. I was mostly mucking and shoveling. I did a tiny bit of finishing on that job, but they were pretty heavy on the, \u201cNo! Don\u2019t touch that!\u201d I made another round of calls and I called Mark and he was like, \u201cIt\u2019s getting into winter soon and I\u2019m not bringing anybody else on.\u201d I called Grindline and they said, \u201cIf you want to get on the crew, you\u2019ve got to come out to this DIY project and show us what you got and then maybe you\u2019ll have a chance.\u201d Then a weird turn happened. A friend of ours was working at Russ Chevrolet car dealership and I was telling him what was happening and how we were so broke. He was like \u201cI can get you a job tomorrow selling cars.\u201d So I got a suit and went in and took to that right away. I was top salesman over and over again and I was making good money. The guys were like, \u201cWe don\u2019t know what you\u2019re doing, but keep doing it.\u201d They didn\u2019t micromanage me at all. I was my own boss and I was selling cars the way I did it and I was feeling it. I\u2019d never made money like that either. They were saying, \u201cYou\u2019re going to go far in this.\u201d I\u2019d never had respect like that at a job ever. It was amazing.<\/p>\n\n\n\n It was good for your ego. <\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n Yeah. It was good for my confidence. That lasted about six months and I made about $50,000 and I was on top of the world and I was still skating a bunch. Then I got a call from Geth and he said, \u201cI\u2019ve got a job out in Ireland. Are you in?\u201d I said, \u201cI\u2019m making really good money right now.\u201d He said, \u201cWhat are you making?\u201d I told him and he said, \u201cI\u2019ll match that.\u201d I was like, \u201cWhat?\u201d <\/p>\n\n\n\n I can\u2019t wait to hear what your wife said when you told her you were quitting your car salesman job to build a skatepark in Ireland. <\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n [Laughs] She said, \u201cHow much are you getting paid and will Russ take you back when you\u2019re done?\u201d Geth said he would match my pay and Russ said they would take me back, so it seemed like a foolproof plan. I finally had this good job, but my passion was to build parks. Then I went to talk to one of my mentors at the car dealership who had been selling cars for 30 years. I said, \u201cWhat do I do?\u201d He was like, \u201cYou need to follow your heart. You can always come back to this. You can sell cars in any city anywhere. Go build skateparks while you can.\u201d So I called Geth and said, \u201cI\u2019m coming.\u201d He got me a plane ticket and gave me the address for where I could send my tools.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Does Geth still have Airspeed?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n No. <\/p>\n\n\n\n Is he working for you?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n He moonlights for us. Then I got home from Ireland and I was going to go back to Russ Chevrolet, but I wanted to keep building parks. At that time, Dreamland was working on Pier Park, so I went to that job site. Sage came up to the fence and I told him that I just came back from working on a park in Ireland and I wanted to work. He was like, \u201cOh, yeah. We\u2019re really busy. Call the big boss.\u201d So I called Mark and Mark was like, \u201cOkay, go to Pier Park at 7AM tomorrow.\u201d I was completely ecstatic. <\/p>\n\n\n\n That meant you were going to get paid? <\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n Yeah. I was going right to work. From what I knew, at that time, Dreamland had a good amount of work and I was finally working. <\/p>\n\n\n\n What was that first day like?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n It wasn\u2019t too bad. I was at Pier Park working with Sage and he put me on tying rebar right away. I tied a lot of rebar in Ireland and I was pretty fast, so I was able to not get picked on too much because I was just in rebar world. I was only at Pier Park for a few days and then they transferred me out to Woodland, Washington. I didn\u2019t care what jobs they put me on because I was excited to work. That job was just starting out, so it was just Mark and I there on the first day. He was a man of few words and he gave me a few tasks to paint some coping and organize a few things. Then he was like, \u201cCan you weld?\u201d I was like, \u201cYeah. I took welding classes in high school.\u201d He was like, \u201cOh, formal training.\u201d There was a mellow pocket with a 20-foot radius piece of steel and a seven-foot radius piece of steel and a straight wall for this pocket thing. All of these pieces were separate on the ground and he was like, \u201cPut that wood underneath that stuff and put that stuff up in the air and make it look really good and then come and get me when you\u2019re done. I\u2019ll be on the excavator and I will approve it before you weld it.\u201d I was like, \u201cOh man, I better nail this.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n So you knew what you were doing?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n [Laughs] I knew a lot less than I wanted to portray, but I tweaked on it and got it all up. I was analyzing it though like, \u201cThis guy has the most laser eye ever and he\u2019s going to be able to detect some crazy discrepancy that I\u2019d never be able to see.\u201d I got it to a point that I felt like it looked pretty good and then he came and looked at it for two seconds and was like, \u201cIt\u2019s good. Weld it.\u201d I was like, \u201cAll right! I passed the test.\u201d <\/p>\n\n\n\n What year are we talking?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n That was 2006. Pretty soon I was back to getting laid off again and I hated it because I was in pursuit of getting better at building parks and I wasn\u2019t working and I wasn\u2019t making money. <\/p>\n\n\n\n Did you try to call Grindine or Geth again and try to get work with other people?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n No. I was in pretty good communication with Mark and I had figured out that the next jobs were coming. There was a roofing contractor that I knew, so I\u2019d go work for him in between. I would keep as busy as I could, but I just wanted to build parks. <\/p>\n\n\n\n So a Dreamland job comes along and you\u2019re in there?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n Yeah. <\/p>\n\n\n\n At this point, it seems like you\u2019re on the Dreamland crew, so did you get work after that? How was it looking?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n Yeah. It was summer and there was a bunch of work in Montana and Oregon. That was a pretty busy year, but I still only worked about six months of the year, which wasn\u2019t enough for me. I wanted to be part of a project all the time. <\/p>\n\n\n\n What year was this?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n It was 2008. That\u2019s when I first went up to work at Windells and I fell in love with that place. When I was working for Dreamland, I was one of the younger guys, so if I had design ideas, it was like, \u201cShut up, kid. Go tie rebar.\u201d When I started working for Dreamland, it was after the super sick parks like Aumsville, Newberg and Lincoln City. I had heard about the heydays of working on those parks where they were designing and building as they go. It wasn\u2019t city guys telling them what to do and there were no plans that you had to follow. I loved hearing the stories of those super sick parks and the way certain obstacles got figured out. It was definitely a more holistic approach, but, when I started working for Dreamland, it was like, \u201cWe have this design and we have to stick to it.\u201d The older guys were reminiscing about how they used to be able to make the parks better and they weren\u2019t so stuck with a plan and they didn\u2019t have to please all these people by making all of these obstacles available in the park. When I went up to Windells camp, I was like, \u201cThis is a place I could do that. This is a place where you can build shit without having a bunch of people involved.\u201d I was helping at that camp when I was laid off from Dreamland, and it was a really good spot because there weren\u2019t a lot of people around. <\/p>\n\n\n\n Being a skatepark builder, it\u2019s not like a regular job where you\u2019re working 40 hours a week. You\u2019re off half the time, so you have to juggle, right?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n Yeah. That wasn\u2019t going to be my destiny. I didn\u2019t care that people told me that\u2019s the way it\u2019s going to be. Building skateparks is just way too awesome. I just needed to figure out a way that I could do it all the time. I saw Windells camp as a way that I could get my foot in the door to municipal jobs, so I just did whatever I could to stay working there. I did stuff with the excavator and put in culverts and did grading and helped some of the kids build BMX jumps. I was trying to not go back to working just half of the year and begging Mark for work, so I was staying focused on camp as much as I could. To make a long story short, this dude in Colorado saw pictures of the stuff we were doing up at Windells and he went to the city guy in Carbondale, Colorado, and said, \u201cThere\u2019s a new crew of guys that are doing some stuff and they would be good to do the addition on the Carbondale skatepark.\u201d The city guy said, \u201cIf you are interested in this job, you will need a contractor\u2019s license and insurance and you\u2019ll need to submit a proposal with a 3D rendering.\u201d At that time, I didn\u2019t know how to make a 3D rendering or a proposal and I didn\u2019t have a contractor\u2019s license or insurance. I started talking with Catherine about it and I said, \u201cIt seems like this city guy wants this to happen for us. We should go for this.\u201d So I started studying for my contractor\u2019s license and I got my license and insurance. I was on the computer trying to figure out how to draw 3D renderings and I can\u2019t tell you how many times I wanted to throw the computer through the window. I told Catherine, \u201cI\u2019m not going to do this. I\u2019m over it.\u201d I had just done a long day of concrete and I was working on that 3D rendering and I was like, \u201cI don\u2019t have it. I\u2019m tired and want to go to bed.\u201d She was like, \u201cNo. You need to do it.\u201d She pushed me and I figured it out and we submitted our proposal. I remember getting home that night and I opened the computer and I saw, \u201cYou have been awarded the contract for the Carbondale Skatepark expansion.\u201d I was like, \u201cOh my god!\u201d I couldn\u2019t believe it. I remember saying to Catherine, \u201cOur world is about to totally change.\u201d And it really did. <\/p>\n\n\n\n Did you have a crew lined up?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n Yeah. It was Jasper, Peter Gunn and Tavita. I went out to Carbondale for the first week by myself and then it was just me and Jasper for a few weeks. Then those other guys came out and the four of us did that whole job. <\/p>\n\n\n\n What was the layout?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n They wanted a street expansion for the kids, so it was all small shit. It was nothing too crazy, but I was stressing the whole time. I knew the budget was really tight and it wasn\u2019t like working for someone else, or even being a foreman where, if stuff goes wrong, you don\u2019t have to pay for it. Out there, everything that went wrong, I was gonna have to pay for it. This was my one chance to get my municipal job, so everything that went wrong, I was stressing. I made a good amount of mistakes and it was definitely an awakening. I was thinking, \u201cI fucked this shit up and I\u2019m failing right now. I\u2019m not going to come out of this with a skatepark building company.\u201d I thought it was going to be hideous, but I worked my ass off. I worked 60-70 hour weeks and everything that went wrong, I was adding it up in my head. We hit a water line underneath the park and the city guy was like, \u201cYou\u2019re going to have to reroute that mainline around the whole skatepark.\u201d I was like, \u201cWhat?\u201d There was a lot of expensive and high pressure plumbing.\u201d I was like, \u201cThat doesn\u2019t seem like it\u2019s in my scope.\u201d He was like, \u201cIt\u2019s in your job site, so it\u2019s in your scope!\u201d I remember being like, \u201cOh my god. This is going to take us four or five days and this excavator is $300 a day.\u201d We were doing it later in the year, so it was getting cold too. There was all of this other shit that happened and it freaked me out. Once we finished that park and crunched the numbers I just wanted to break even, but we did better than that and I couldn\u2019t believe it. When we finished that job, I have never felt so good in my entire life. We made enough money that I was able to focus on getting our next job, so that\u2019s what I did. I was like, \u201cWe are going to do this now. This is going to work!\u201d We drove back to Oregon from Colorado in November and it was cold and snowy and that was the best drive ever. Catherine and I were on top of the world. I was like, \u201cWhen we get back to Oregon, I am going to pound the pavement so hard. The next job that comes up is ours. We are going to figure out how to get any job that comes our way.\u201d I was wrong. <\/p>\n\n\n\n What happened? <\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n After that job, we were on the phone constantly cold calling and emailing cities that had old parks or modular parks. I was like, \u201cWe can come fix your park or add on to your park or build you a new park. I\u2019ll send you a free 3D design that shows you what you can get. Even if you\u2019re not ready, you can use it to raise funds. You don\u2019t owe me anything for it.\u201d Some cities said, \u201cWe\u2019ll take a 3D design.\u201d So I would do one for them. I learned how to draw in 3D and it manifested into four jobs over the next five years. <\/p>\n\n\n\n What was your first job after Carbondale?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n Well, that little nest egg that I thought we could live off of while I was pounding the pavement, ended up getting pretty slim. We bid on a bunch of jobs, but we didn\u2019t get them. Just having one municipal job under your belt isn\u2019t that great when you\u2019re up against people that have hundreds. It wasn\u2019t going the way I thought it would go, but I was still hustling. Then I got a call from a guy in Israel about a project that California Skateparks was working on. They had gotten in a fight with the general contractor who was the main guy supplying everything, so this general contractor was without a skatepark contractor. We were desperate, so we negotiated with him. <\/p>\n\n\n\n Did he pay you in full?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n No. It was a wonderful job though and it kicked my ass. It was so hard to pull anything off with that contractor. We did the job and I learned how shitty it can really be. It definitely made me understand when I\u2019ve got good jobs. I didn\u2019t completely lose my ass, but we didn\u2019t really make out. <\/p>\n\n\n\n He owed you money and didn\u2019t pay you?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n Yeah. He paid us some money up front, because I knew he was sketchy. He was paying us in weekly increments because that\u2019s the contract we set up. At first, they were a week ahead and then they missed a payment, so then they were paying on time and then they missed another week and then they were a week behind. Then they paid a little bit and then missed another week, so I was stressing because when you miss a whole week of payroll, that\u2019s a lot of money. When they missed a couple weeks, that was a whole lot more, so the vice was tightening pretty hard, but we made it through.<\/p>\n\n\n\n After Israel, what happened with Evergreen? <\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n We did a little backyard in Portland and a backyard in Northern California, but they were not moneymakers. Then there was a job in the Chicago area that came up. It was a Grindline design, so it was just bidding on the construction. That was actually one of the places that I had cold called. They were doing the design with Grindline already and it was down to a competitive bid and we ended up getting the job. The job was in Villa Park, Illinois, where my mom grew up, so I knew the town well. I had done a lot of skateboarding there in \u201989, so it was an important job for me to get. We got it, but we ended up bidding it way lower than we should have being inexperienced, and there was a giant spread between us and the next lowest bidder. It was like an $80,000-$100,000 spread. <\/p>\n\n\n\n Did you lowball it just to get the job or did you not realize what all had to go into it?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n It was a little bit of both. I was desperate. We needed jobs and I was trying to keep the company together. There was a large spread on the bids, so the bonding company, being that we were a pretty new company, said, \u201cYou guys have to come up with some cash for us to hold.\u201d They wanted to hold on to $40,000, so we had to take out lines of credit and loans. The job started on November 10th in Chicago. I guess there were grants that would have fallen through if they didn\u2019t get it started then.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Wow. In Chicago, in winter, you\u2019ve got like three weeks before really bad weather.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n We showed up November 1st and tried to get it going, but they were being pencil pushers on insurance and getting signatures on this and that, so that held us up even more. We ended up starting on November 10th and I was stressing so hard, and then the union showed up and sat outside the job site every single day for the rest of the project. They blew up a giant rat and they had a big sign that said, \u201cEvergreen Construction is cheating.\u201d They were blocking dump trucks from coming in and they were there every day. I came back to that park a month after it was done to go skate it a little bit and they were still out there. Some days there would be a dozen of them out there, but there were never less than two of them. One day they were like, \u201cHey, buddy, come here.\u201d So I walked up to the fence and they said, \u201cIt\u2019s really good to see a young guy like you out here working and being a young entrepreneur. You have a dream. It\u2019s just sad to see that this is going to be your last job.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n Oh man. What did you say to that? <\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n I just stormed off. I was so pissed. I got a light tower and worked seven days a week from six in the morning until seven at night. I only worked those hours because that\u2019s what the city told me I could do because the union complained about me working later than that. I rolled out everything for everybody and cleaned up everything because it\u2019s prevailing wage. They tried to pull all sorts of shit about me being the owner and saying I couldn\u2019t work all of those hours and I was stealing from my workers by taking work away from them, but it was turning into winter and I had to get that job done. <\/p>\n\n\n\n How big of a park was it?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n It was an 8,000 square foot park and we got it done in five weeks.<\/p>\n\n\n\n The weather never got bad? You didn\u2019t have to set up a tarp tent to heat shit up?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n No. Something came over me because I was so nervous about losing everything and I worked like a maniac. I wanted to work as much as I could so that the second I\u2019d go to bed, I\u2019d pass out, so I wouldn\u2019t think about what was going on. My wife and business partner, Catherine, was working on the site, day and night as well, running equipment, helping me fabricate, tying rebar and doing whatever needed to get done. During my waking hours, I only wanted to see forward movement. It worked out though. We got that park done and ended up making money on it. I learned some lessons and I think about that job all of the time. <\/p>\n\n\n\n It sounds gnarly. When you got back to Oregon did you get more work going?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n In 2013, we got a job in Oregon and everybody was stoked. It was right next to Portland. The park was not super sick, but it was nice to work in Oregon. Then we did someone else\u2019s design again. It was a New Line Design in Buffalo, NY. We stayed busy and did some design\/build stuff, but it was all super small. I was just happy to have jobs that weren\u2019t killing me like that Chicago park. I felt thankful for any work. We did the job with the New Line design and that one was a bit hard because we had this designer that worked for New Line that would come and check out the work. There was a certain feature in the park that I had redrawn and submitted to him. I said, \u201cWe should do it like this. It will work much better and I won\u2019t charge you anymore money.\u201d He said, \u201cNo. You can\u2019t just change the design or it will disrupt the flow of the park.\u201d I was like, \u201cWhat? Come on. This thing I\u2019m offering to do is not changing the intent by any means. It\u2019s just a refinement. Give me a break. We\u2019re just doing it in the name of skateboarding to make this park better.\u201d I was thinking, \u201cWe have got to get some design\/build jobs.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n When did you hook up with Jeff Ament?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n In 2013, when it was colder outside, we were in Oregon and Catherine said, \u201cThere\u2019s a Pearl Jam show tonight and Bryce (Kanights) is going. Do you want to go?\u201d I was working on a 3D drawing at the time, so I said, \u201cNo. I\u2019m just going to stay here.\u201d She said, \u201cCome on. You should go to the concert.\u201d Bryce hyped me up too because he said, \u201cJeff went and skated the Goat Bowl in Sonoma.\u201d Jeff told Bryce that it was super sick and Bryce said, \u201cI know the guys that built it. We should link you guys up.\u201d Catherine was like, \u201cWe should go to the show and meet Jeff. You guys can talk about skateparks.\u201d So we went to the show and it was sick and then we went backstage and everybody was super cool. There was a ton of people talking to Jeff, so I didn\u2019t get to talk to him that much. On my way out, I was like, \u201cHey, ya know, we have a skatepark thing too.\u201d He was like, \u201cYeah. I skated the Goat Bowl that you built and that was fun.\u201d I said, \u201cI do 3D drawings and, if you need help with any of your projects, just let me know.\u201d He was like, \u201cYeah. I\u2019m thinking about some stuff.\u201d A month or two later, Jeff called me and said, \u201cI\u2019m thinking about doing something up on the Blackfeet Reservation in Browning. Do you want to go check it out?\u201d I was in Colorado working on a project and I was like, \u201cYeah!\u201d So I flew out to Kalispell and we drove out to Browning and talked about skatepark stuff. We get there and he had set up this meeting with the tribal council and we were in this room and people just keep pouring in there. Jeff was telling them how good a skatepark would be there, and I was chiming in too. They were like, \u201cDo you want to go and check out the potential site?\u201d We go out to this big park and Jeff said, \u201cBilly, where do you think it would look good? Do you think this is a good site?\u201d I said, \u201cOver there where it\u2019s higher, we could poke the drains out of the hill. That seems like a good spot.\u201d We gabbed a bit more and then everyone said goodbye. Jeff and I were driving back to Kalispell and Jeff was like, \u201cI think that went really good.\u201d I was thinking, \u201cWe work for years to lobby for jobs and get into bidding wars. What do you mean? What\u2019s happening here?\u201d I didn\u2019t want to be too frank, so I was trying to choose my words wisely. Then he was like, \u201cWhat\u2019s the soonest you could get started?\u201d I was like, \u201cOh! Yeah! We can get started next month.\u201d I was jaw-dropped. I was like, \u201cThis is a big job that we\u2019re going to do.\u201d I didn\u2019t even know how to explain it to Catherine. She said, \u201cWhat do you mean? We\u2019re just going to go there and do it?\u201d I said, \u201cYeah.\u201d I still can\u2019t believe it. <\/p>\n\n\n\n When did the discussion about the actual skatepark design go down?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n That\u2019s a good question. Jeff was super hyped on the Big O and I was gathering all of the info from him of Brandon\u2019s dad\u2019s drawings from back in the day. I drew that first and got that dialed in to what Jeff was thinking and then I drew something similar to what we were going to do. He was like, \u201cYou can do whatever you want around the bowl, like street course stuff.\u201d That was when I was like, \u201cThis is our chance. We can do a pump bump park.\u201d That is something that\u2019s been talked about in the skatepark world since I started doing it. It\u2019s like this mythological thing that people want and wish that they could do, but it never seemed to happen. <\/p>\n\n\n\n Well, it\u2019s probably never going to come up in a city design where they want street courses or specific other obstacles.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n Exactly. It falls into this weird gray area. It isn\u2019t easily describable or relatable. People don\u2019t have another park to compare it to, so people are going to want a park where it has obstacles similar to what they\u2019ve ridden so they can do their tricks. <\/p>\n\n\n\n Had you seen photos of the \u201870s parks that inspired you to do that?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n Yeah. I\u2019d been to Kona and Romford and Pocatello and I\u2019m always so excited to go check out any park, especially the really old ones. I\u2019m inspired by that. I\u2019m also inspired by the blends in pools and bowls where the hip turns into a waterfall and turns into the long wall. Now I want every pour to be the hip and the waterfall. That is what the Evergreen parks are. It\u2019s about expanding on those shapes. <\/p>\n\n\n\n The Blackfeet park is killer. It reminds me of the old mogul parks. From then on, when Jeff had you build parks, could you just go in with a design and he\u2019d give you the green light to do it?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n It\u2019s getting more like that and it\u2019s because of that Browning park. Before we did that park, we didn\u2019t even know we could do it. Now people want that. <\/p>\n\n\n\n What happens when you get the kids who say, \u201cWhere\u2019s the handrail?\u201d <\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n I\u2019m obsessed with making things make sense, so I figured out a way to make linear skating in our parks. We started doing a Sprack Track, which is a loop that goes outside of the park that has more linear obstacles. It could even be a path leading into the park or a track that goes outside of the park, so that\u2019s how we integrate those obstacles. People are asking for other stuff too, like the lunar landscape. I remember Jeff and a bunch of his friends came out there and they were chomping at the bit to see the Big O. They walked up to the park and they\u2019re like, \u201cWhere\u2019s the Big O?\u201d Then they detoured when they saw all of those bumps with all of the forms on them everywhere. They were soaking it in like, \u201cWhat is this? I can\u2019t believe this.\u201d Basically, it was like a \u201870s park with modern tweaks. They went over and looked at the Big O, but they took a long gander in between getting over there.<\/p>\n\n\n\n It\u2019s just endless lines. You can just roll in and pump and go through the whole park and it\u2019s just pure fun.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n Totally. When we first started skating it, we were like, \u201cOh my god!\u201d Building it and pulling off some of those pours was some tech shit, so we were hyped. We were like, \u201cWe have to figure out how to keep making parks like this.\u201d We finally got a chance to build a park and nobody was telling us what to do and we were going for it. This was our chance to do what we\u2019re capable of doing. We went for it on that one and it wasn\u2019t a moneymaker but, in the long run, it put us in the direction towards doing something different. We just keep working on making our shapes better and doing bigger pours and expanding on that style.<\/p>\n\n\n\n What is your building philosophy? The designs look so organic. <\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n At Browning, we were sculpting aggregate for a while, so we put in some really good aggregate. It\u2019s like a Zen garden, so it looked super sick. The philosophy is that I want to make new terrain that really is out of this world. I\u2019m gonna keep pushing that. I don\u2019t want to make anything that looks like a sidewalk or something you\u2019d find anywhere else. Maybe the closest thing you\u2019d find to it would be the last project we did. We keep refining from our last project and discovering new things and blends.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Is there anything that you haven\u2019t built yet that you want to build?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n I just want more opportunity, more space, more dirt, more gravel and bigger machines. I just want to get out there and sculpt it. I want to figure out the concrete better so we can do bigger pours. It\u2019s its own beast and we\u2019re just going with it. I don\u2019t think of specific obstacles really. I more think of the whole park and whatever fits with the next thing. I\u2019m trying to morph the parks more like that. <\/p>\n\n\n\n What kind of feedback do you get after building a park with moguls and snake runs? <\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n What I notice is that there are kids ripping. I could go off about the kids at Browning. I notice kids skating good and being on their boards for a long time and looking comfortable on their skateboards and going super fast. I definitely see the parks are crowded. Of course, you can do tricks too. Tricks are going to come easier because you can pump around the whole park and get that special meter up and you\u2019re not even really trying tricks. They\u2019re just happening because you\u2019ve been able to pump around the whole park enough to get super warmed up. When I go to our parks, I walk around the whole park and study where people are grinding and power sliding and ollieing. You can see the marks in the parks where that is happening. I have other philosophies in building parks too. I want them to be open, but I\u2019m thinking about traffic in them too, like how can you get out of people\u2019s way. I try not to make crazy blind spots and I try to figure out multiple directions where everybody doesn\u2019t get bottlenecked in one area. Around the perimeters of the park, I like that to have its own little track. Almost any skill level can stay on the outside of the park without knowing how to migrate to the middle. You can stay on the outside until you progressively move your way in as your skills build more. I also try to break up the coping so it\u2019s not a constant amount of coping everywhere because I feel like that keeps people really in or really out. I want the park to skate less like an intersection and more like a roundabout with on and off ramps. <\/p>\n\n\n\n It\u2019s a certain style of park. Some people may say that there\u2019s not a lot of vert and pools, but the mogul areas are fun. For me, it\u2019s a flashback to the \u201870s and I like that fact that you can surf your parks and do lines. Those things are just a blast. <\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n Yeah. I can\u2019t wait for you to go to some of the newer ones. You went to Box Elder, right?<\/p>\n\n\n\n Yeah. I was there opening day. Every time I go out there, I don\u2019t have enough time. We go to Big Sandy and a few others, but I need a few weeks to ride all those parks. <\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n The one that we did in Frisco, Colorado, is giant. You\u2019d be hyped on that one. It\u2019s almost 30,000 square feet. It\u2019s all crazy rolling snake runs and it has an over vert pocket and another vert pocket. There is a good amount of hand poured in that park and it\u2019s got all sorts of shit. That one is crazy. It\u2019s got an old slab from an old park, so we added a bunch of shit to the old slab. That one is sick. The one in Hamilton is going to blow your mind too. It\u2019s the craziest looking park. <\/p>\n\n\n\n What are some of the upcoming build plans looking like for Evergreen?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n Jeff has a few projects in Montana that he is thinking about. We\u2019ve got one in Alberton, Montana. I don\u2019t want to let the cat out of the bag. Jeff has a few others that he wants to do and then we have a few jobs in Texas and Michigan.<\/p>\n\n\n\n How many crews do you have now?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n Two. I\u2019ve got Lance Spiker and Richie Conklin as managers. We\u2019ve got Jordan, Ben, Cole, Taylor and Tavita, currently. We\u2019ve got Sean Kelly, Brian Sizer and Lance Spiker. Lance is a mega veteran. He\u2019s been building parks since \u201997 or \u201998. He is the sickest. We have a lot of dudes. <\/p>\n\n\n\n You\u2019re busy.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n We\u2019re pretty busy and we\u2019re bidding on a ton of jobs now, so we\u2019ll see which ones hit. Most of my guys are kids and I run a pretty good training program. When the kids want to come work, they start out as a butler. They think they\u2019re going to learn how to trowel concrete right away and then go back to their DIY spot and kill it, but no. They\u2019re on the pressure washer for a few months and they\u2019re greasing machines and going to the store and picking up trash and cleaning the work trucks and the job site, but they\u2019re able to succeed at these things right away. That\u2019s better than throwing them in there right away and then saying to them, \u201cYou suck at concrete.\u201d [Laughs] <\/p>\n\n\n\n No tough love approach? [Laughs]<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n Not exactly. We get them in and we want them to be successful right away at pressure washing and picking up trash. If they\u2019re not good at those things, it would probably be good for them to move on to another job somewhere else. We\u2019ve been doing it that way for a few years now and it helps us stay organized as a crew too, just having a few different positions that people start at and work up. It keeps the infrastructure of the company and it helps us make sure that the machines have fuel and the maintenance is done. Eventually, they become so good at pressure washing and organizing the box truck and cleaning the job site, they\u2019re freed up to go pound stakes for the guy setting up. Then it\u2019s like, \u201cGo get some nail bags.\u201d Pretty soon you\u2019re pounding stakes with the nail bag on. Next thing you know, you\u2019re the guy setting the forms. It\u2019s the same with concrete. You get all of your other tasks done and then maybe you\u2019re the guy over there tossing concrete in the hole for the guys floating. Soon enough you\u2019ll start floating too. There you go. You\u2019re on the concrete. <\/p>\n\n\n\n They\u2019ll just be waiting to get that trowel in hand and, if they\u2019re patient and hungry, they\u2019ll get there. <\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n Exactly. There\u2019s a lot to learn. If you\u2019re thrown in the coals too early, you\u2019ll probably get burned out and the people above you will get burned out yelling at you. The more experienced guys are going to get burned out too if, every time they go to set up a saw and there\u2019s no gas, they have to go the store. They\u2019re the guys getting paid $40 an hour, but now they\u2019re driving to the store for gas. Then you\u2019ve got people that aren\u2019t trained yet sitting there waiting for a $40 an hour guy to get back with the gas. We\u2019re definitely working on having a real solid program where it\u2019s consistent for everyone and everyone feels accomplished at the end of the day. That\u2019s what we\u2019re striving for. <\/p>\n\n\n\n That\u2019s a good work philosophy. Tell me your Duty Now For The Future. <\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n My duty now for the future is to keep the skatepark industry design\/build. I\u2019m fighting for that 100%. <\/p>\n\n\n\n Do you think there\u2019s more skatepark building to come or is it leveling off?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n I don\u2019t see skateparks leveling off at all. If you take a look at the baseball fields and basketball courts, there\u2019s nobody out there, but there are 30 dudes and five chicks at the skatepark every day. City people are noticing that. Skateparks are here to stay, so we don\u2019t have anything to worry about. The cities are trying to keep up with the other cities. When one city gets a skatepark, the next city sees that and says, \u201cOh, we\u2019ve gotta get one too and we\u2019ve gotta get a bigger one.\u201d That\u2019s why I\u2019m trying super hard to not just run one crew and I\u2019m trying to grow the business more. The cities need it and we should be doing it because we\u2019re going to care about it. All of the people on our team really care, every single one of them. That\u2019s our Duty Now For the Future. Keep skaters building skateparks. <\/p>\n\n\n\n Yeah. Keep it going. <\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n Thanks. I appreciate the interview. It\u2019s been fun.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Is there anyone you\u2019d like to thank?<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n I\u2019d like to thank my wife Catherine who runs our company. Without her, I could never and would never have been able to do this. I also want to thank our project managers, Richie and Lance, and the rest of our amazing crew. Also, thanks to Jeff Ament for believing in us and giving us creative freedom and the opportunity to truly do our best work.<\/p>\n\n\n\n\u201cSkateparks are here to stay, so we don\u2019t have anything to worry about.\u201d<\/h2>\n\n\n\n
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\u201cMy duty now for the future is to keep the skatepark industry design\/build. I\u2019m fighting for that 100%.\u201d<\/h2>\n\n\n\n
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\u201cKeep skaters building skateparks.\u201d<\/h2>\n\n\n\n
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\u201cI just want more opportunity, more space, more dirt, more gravel and bigger machines. I just want to get out there and sculpt it. I want to figure out the concrete better so we can do bigger pours.\u201d<\/h2>\n\n\n\n
![\"\"](\"https:\/\/juicemagazine.com\/home\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/07\/billy_coulon_backside_lipslide_stevensville_2019_10_10_kanights.jpg\")
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\u201cI want the park to skate less like an intersection and more like a roundabout with on and off ramps.\u201d<\/h2>\n\n\n\n
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<\/figure>\n\n\n\n\u201cThis is our chance. We can do a pump bump park.\u201d That is something that\u2019s been talked about in the skatepark world since I started doing it. It\u2019s like this mythological thing that people want and wish that they could do, but it never seemed to happen.\u201d<\/h2>\n\n\n\n
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